Beschleunigung 1.4 TSI 90 KW

Hallo,

auch ich greife diesen Thread nochmal auf, denn auch ich habe genau diese Probleme in meinem 6er Variant, 1.4 TSI, Motor ist CAXA mit 122 PS, pulsierende Beschleunigung !

Bin damit auch schon in meiner VW Werkstatt des öfteren vorstellig gewesen, da es keine Fehlermeldung hinterlässt, ist so nix zu machen... Neuwagen Garantie habe ich noch diese Woche, Problematik tritt jetzt erst nach gut 28000km auf. Erstzulassung ist 08/2012, Baujahr auch 2012.
Es wurde mir aber bei einer Probefahrt bestätigt, das eine pulsierende Beschleunigung statt findet, merkbar zwischen 1800 und 2600 U/min.

Laut Auskunft meiner Werkstatt habe ich bereits das letzte, aktuelle SUV (Schubumluftventil) und auch den letzten, aktuellen Turbo drin. Neuere/andere Software gibt es nicht, auch hier letzter Stand.

Die Ladedrucksensoren habe ich beide auch ausgebaut und gereinigt gehabt und gegeneinader ausgetauscht, keine Verbessung. Die Drosselklappe habe ich noch nicht ausgebaut/neu angelernt. Allerdings das Ladedruckrohr zur DK abgebaut, die Drosselklappe ist sehr sauber. Das Ladedruck-Regelventil N75 wurde getauscht, da mit 38 Euro nicht so teuer, nix.

Gibt es neue Erfahrungen ?

Ich kann nur sagen, woran es bei meinem Golf lag: eine der Zündkerzen hatte einen kleinen Riss in der Keramik. Nach dem Austausch war das Ruckeln beim beschleunigen endlich weg.

I also had this problem.
And I have solved it by greasing the wastegate rod linkages on the wastegate flap end.
I have used a product that withstands temperatures over 1200 degrees celsius.
After greasing it the acceleration response improved a lot. It feels like a different engine.

Zitat von fixpixu

I also had this problem.
And I have solved it by greasing the wastegate rod linkages on the wastegate flap end.
I have used a product that withstands temperatures over 1200 degrees celsius.
After greasing it the acceleration response improved a lot. It feels like a different engine.

Sounds nice. Time to time I have the same feeling at my car and this is supposed to be an easy fix. Mind sharing the product name with us?

I have tried this product http://profi.sonax.de/Industri…SIONAL-Keramikpastenspray

It is just a suggestion.
Maybe someone can find a more appropriate product and share the experience with us.

Yes, sounds like a good solution. i have read in another Forum about this opportunity. If this is the Problem.

Ive tested my waste gate when the engine was hot. I drove half an hour parked the car, opened the bonnet, the engine ran on, pulled of the pressure hose from the top on the turbo to the pressure magnet ventil called N75 and installed a big syringe about 100ml on the pressure hose and exerted pressure with the syringe to the waste gate actuator. The waste gate opened immediately.
Do you have tested this or do you greased the wastegate rod linkages knowing ahead this is the Problem ?

And what do you have greased what i have marked on the picture ?
[Blockierte Grafik: http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/140807/temp/cu836le9.jpg]

That must be the wastegate rod linkages on the wastegate flap end ? Sorry my enlisch is not very well. But this seems to work fine on my Turbo i think it could be shaft bearing of the waste gate it self ?

The Sonax ceramics paste is a good solution for high temp greasing and the price at Ama*on seems to be ok. Another possibility will be from Weicon, Weicon Anti Seize, a little bit more expensive, temperature resistant up to 1200 degrees. I will buy and test the Sonax paste from Ama*on. I am very curious if that brings an improvement.

On this evening i will drive to a friend about 30 Kilometers on country road and highway (autobahn) and the syringe will accompany me. I hope i will get some new findings whats the issue.

You can write in German, I use google translate (not very good, but I manage to understand).
I have greased both joints. I insisted especially on the shaft of the wastegate.
I have greased the wastegate joints because I had wave like acceleration - Leistungsschwankung and several times the engine was actually running like a naturally aspirated one - Leistungsverlust.
But after 1500 km the grease is not there anymore. Like it evaporated. The first 1000km the engine was GREAT. So the ceramic paste is a temporary solution.
Probably I need to use a thicker grease like LOCTITE 8008

Hi,

i will write in Englisch, hope you understand it easier.

I think i know what you mean with aspirated one. I removed the plug from the N75 that the full pressure gets unregulated to the waste gate actuator. The N75 couldnt switch. With more gas und more pressure the waste gate opends more it wouldn´t be closed. The engine had not much Power but the acceleration was not like a wave...
But even with an functionally N75 i have had the same problems what you have described, no acceleration, no speed up, nothing. The worst case was when i would to overtake a truck in the 3rd gear at a Speed of 80 Km/h, round about 3200-3400 U/min, put the gas pedal fully down and nothing happens, no acceleration for about 2 seconds ! This is not funny ! Then after the 2 seconds suddenly the power cames softly back, not a hard blow, soft. No idea what this was and no entry in the error memory. I have had this phenomenon about 2 times.

On this weekend i will test the other way. The N75 will be funktionally but i will squeeze the pressure hose togehter so that the waste gate actuator will not being activated, the waste gate schould not open but i hope the engine will not get into fail save modus. I will only drive a short while and not with full throttle to avoid the fail save modus. I will not remove the pressure hose because the turbo will lost boost pressure over it. The hope is there that there will be no acceleration like a wave. And then the problem should be identified i hope...

LOCTITE 8008 seems to be an anti seize paste like the weicon anti seize but on copper base and seems to be good suitable. Temperature stable until 980 degree this should be enough.
I am considering to buy the LOCTITE 8008 but the Sonax is a spray paste ? And the Sonax is better available on Ama*on.

How do you greased the Shaft and wastegate rod linkages, do you sprayed the paste onto the parts or do you expanded/removed the turbo even and pressed the paste on ?

Sonax is a spray, but comes also with a brush to evenly spread the compound.
Loctite seems to be a bit thiker, about the same as the G052112A3 paste, that can be found in the VAG exchage parts catalogue, on the turbocharger page. Except that VAG paste is more expensive than Loctite.

As for the symptoms, I had what you have described, without any error code stored. Also the wave like acceleration - jerking.
I have greased the axles on the shaft without removing the turbocharger, only by spraying the compound on them.
But before I have removed the engine cover, turbo heatshield and the protection bracket for turbo oil pipes for easier access.
And with a screwdriver I have moved the wastegate for the grease to spread all over the axle.

After this operation, the engine was pulling like NEVER BEFORE. Not even when it was new. I was so amazed. It pulled constantly from 1400-1500 rpm ... What a sensation... As if I have done a chiptuning to the engine.

Ok, that sounds unbeliveable.

On good times when everything seems to be good/ok the engine runs reely fine. In german wie say: er reißt Bäume aus. It tears trees out.

What i am wondering about is that the waste seems to work smoothly all the time when im testing it. It is hard to believe that it should be the wastegate flap.

At what mileage the problem occurred to the first time ?

It is unbelievable ... that's true. If you read the VW selbststudienprogramme 405 and you will find what important role this wastegate flap has. If it stays closed too much it will generte overboost,and the ECU will try to compensate somehow by cutting something. If it is not closing at the right time not enough boost in the compressor... and so on.
But. I have another forum colleague (vwforum.ro) that has tried this operation after my suggestion and he was amazed as well.
My opinion is that the metals in the wastegate flap axle and the exhaust manifold have different dilatation coeficients, and on heat they expand differently therefore having moments when the axle does not move freely, it sticks. There is no ball bearing there, nothing to help it rotate easily.
It is probably a design flaw. And some turbochargers have better tolerances, and some unlucky few don't - so they fail.
First big sign was around 20000 - 25000 km, when the engine suddenly was not pulling - was like an aspirated engine - although I was in WOT.
Then several more of these, and wavelike acceleration. Now I have 32000 km.
Along these signs, I also had some slight signs of hesitation in acceleration in the low RPM range, mostly in the second gear. After greasing the wastegate axle and rod, these signs dissapeared.

Zitat von fixpixu

My opinion is that the metals in the wastegate flap axle and the exhaust manifold have different dilatation coeficients, and on heat they expand differently therefore having moments when the axle does not move freely, it sticks. There is no ball bearing there, nothing to help it rotate easily.
It is probably a design flaw. And some turbochargers have better tolerances, and some unlucky few don't - so they fail.

With this i agree with you to 100 %. This is exactly that in what i believe also !

i have many of these SSPs including the SSP 405 about the CAXA Engine, very interesting ! It leaves a better understanding how this engine works and where is the difference to the 160 PS Turbo/Kompressor engine.

The Waste Gate is controlled by the N75 Valve. This Valve switches between pressure that the Turbo generates and the hypotension wich it is generating behind the air Filter direct ahead/before the turbo. Sorry for my bad enlisch i hope you understand what i mean.

I had today squeezed the pressure hose from the turbo to the N75. The N75 couldnt pass on the pressure to the waste gate actuator and the flap had to be closed theoretically. This situation is similar when the pressure hose is damaged but in that case the pressure from the turbo can get out of the leak.
I think only the SUV / Schubumluftventil ( Blow Off valve) on the turbo had limited the boost pressure at 0,9 Bar what is an assumption.
I have installed the App Torque on my Galaxy note 3 and installed a PLX bluetooth OBD 2 adapter on the OBD interface and read out the boost pressure. At 0,9 Bar something like a whistle sounds and the pressure did not increase. I only accelerated until 2800 U/min in second and third gear. Nothing else happend, not even the motor control light (MIL) was turning on but the acceleration like a wave was was not felt. the waste gate flap was certainly closed i`m sure.

Its certainly not recomended to do this again...

After this test i went home and sprayed on the Sonax paste which was delivered today by DHL Express from Ama*on. I have uploaded 2 Pictures where i have sprayed the paste on. I have sprayed a lot on

[Blockierte Grafik: http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/140809/temp/hfnd6f4u.jpg][Blockierte Grafik: http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/140809/temp/9p6khmof.jpg]

Unfortunately some of the paste came on the exhaust manifold :pinch: oh this smokes a little bit... It smells not very well but the smell/odor was familiar. I've smelled it before from the new Polo from my wife as we had picked up the new car from wolfsburg. The first Kilometers it smelled like this. And it did not burned ! Now the paste is slightly brown.

In the afternoon i was driving to my uncle about 35km one way with the paste on, on highway and country road. The engine runs very well. Not really a havy acceleration like a wave was to be noticed.

I will hope the paste is responsible for the improvement.

Thank you for the input. Now I know what and where to try. Might suggest this to my dealer as I will be in for a service, soon!

Soooo,

nun auf Deutsch.

Letzten Samstag habe ich die Schubstange der Wastegate Klappe am Lader ordentlich mit Keramikspray überzogen und es war mir relativ egal wie oft ich die Stange mit der Spritze hin und her bewegt hatte, 3-5 Mal musste reichen, damit sich das Zeug irgendwie verteilt. Öfters ist im Nachhinein aber eher zu empfehlen !

Ich hatte erst keine Wirkung, geschweige denn eine Besserung erwartet, die Stange bewegte sich augenscheinlich immer wenn ichs getestet hatte (kalt oder heiß) ordnungsgemäß, was allerdings auch immer nur eine Annahme war.

Aaaaber es hat sich wider erwarten etwas getan ! Es brauchte ein paar Kilometer bis sich was tat, quasi der Rauch verflogen war aber dann war ich fast schon froh, als der Motor auch unten rum wieder nahezu verzögerungsfrei Befehle aufs Gas-geben umsetzte, halt so schnell wie der Ladedruckaufbau es zulässt. Und wie es denn funktioniert war ich sehr erstaunt wie träge und unpräzise die Gasannahme bisher war, ja, man kann danach fast von einem Chiptuning-artigen Verhalten sprechen obwohl es bei mir zu starken Ruckeln nicht kam, gerade so merkbar.
Froh deshalb, weil meine Garantie am Freitag ausgelaufen war und ich keine Hoffnung hatte das nen Ladertausch auf Dauer etwas bringen würde, der Fehler käme sicher zurück. Im Motortalk-Forum gibts nen 107 seitigen Thread in dem ein paar Leute den Lader bis zu 3 Mal getauscht bekamen und immer tauchte das Problem wieder auf.
Mein Händler sagte mir auf Kulanz können wir ne Menge machen wenn wir den Fehler finden, bleibt immer noch nen Selbstkostenanteil, da keine Garantie mehr. Und das bei jedem weiteren neuen Turbo...

Im Motortalk hat der eine User noch einen Schritt weiter gedacht, den Sprengring oder Segaring, der die Schubstange hält mit einer dünnen Beilagscheibe von der Schubstange quasi zu trennen, da seiner Meinung nach, die ich auch für sehr gut überlegt halte, der Sprengring die Schubstange verkannten oder mechanisch beeinträchtigen könnte. Auch könnte Korrosion an der Schubstange am Sprengring selbst für Hakeln sorgen.
Ich werde auf jeden Fall wohl dieses Wochenende den Sprengring entfernen und sehen ob die Klappe selber gut bewegbar ist, das interessiert mich sehr. Beilagscheiben werde ich bis dahin hoffentlich auch in den Händen halten.
Einzig am Montag Nachmittag hatte er einen kleinen Rückfall, wollte einen LKW überholen, 3te Gang, so um die 70 Km/h, 3200-3400 U/min und noch einmal mangelnder Durchzug, aber nicht mehr so stark wie vorher bis zum Ausbleiben der Leistung. Bis heute läuft er aber immer noch um einiges besser als wie vor der Spraybehandlung.

Ich verweise aber hier aufs Motortalk Forum, dort ist eine Anleitung auch mit Bildern und der Idee mit den Beilagscheiben:

Motortalk

So in the end, because the lubrication of the wastegate rod did not lasted long, I went to the Skoda service and replaced the exhaust manifold of the turbocharger on goodwill (kulanz). The part number is 03C198722. The part is different from the old one, as I can see the marks of the old one on the engine block.